Whether you’ve been involved in student ministry or are in a church with a paid youth ministerial staff member, you’re at least casually aware of the question. It tends to be the follow-up question in almost every conversation that begins with the disclosure that I’m a full time Youth Pastor. It tends to take multiple forms, but they’re primarily derived from the following few, presented in order from least to most frustrating:
Class 2 - Well Meaning, but Deserving of an Answer
#7. “What’s your long term goal?”
#6. “So, you’re eventually going to be a senior pastor?”
#5. “Isn’t there a point where it becomes hard to connect with students because you’re so much older than they are?”
#4. “Are you planning on going to seminary at some point?”
Class 1 - Genuinely Insulting
#3. “Do you feel called to full time ministry someday?”
#2. “Have you ever considered being a pastor?”
#1. “When are you going to be a grown-up pastor?”
There is another entire post’s worth of the struggle to be sanctified in my answers to this question. In short: by the grace of God, through the power of the Holy Spirit, I never answer with my first thought. The point of the current post is less to provide adequate answers to the question, and more to expose the deeply problematic issues underlying it. If you’re in youth ministry and on the receiving end of this question, please give your congregants the benefit of the doubt. I’ve never been asked it in a way that was intended to be malicious, nor have I ever thought for long that this was the underlying intent. The issue with the question is always larger than the one person who asks it of you. The issue is a system which perpetuates the expectations that your calling is temporary, of a lesser value, that it represents a means to some type of “actual” ministry, or that it will change when you reach some type of second-level adulthood. It is a system that is not only extremely difficult for youth ministry practitioners, but entirely detrimental to youth.
So why take issue with the question (in a loving, gracious, charitable way)?
1. It fosters a system where youth ministry as a practice has little in the way of available wisdom.
So imagine that you’ve just broken your finger in such a way that you simply cannot take care of it on your own. You must go to see a doctor. You arrive in the waiting room, at which point you are greeted by a 22 year old specialist. You get over your initial misguided thought that they’re too young to care for you, and go back into the office. As you walk back, you see that every doctor working on the hand is between the ages of 19 and 23. You ask the doctor, in as nice a way as you can, why are all the hand doctors so young? He responds: “Well, once you’ve worked on hands for a few years, the expectation is that you’ll start becoming an ankle doctor. While it’s a completely different part of the body, hand care is a young man’s game. We’ve tried to figure out why, but we can’t come up with a great answer for it. We’ve looked at research to back it up, but all of our research is done by our oldest practicing hand doctors, who are 23. We had a guy in the office who really wanted to stay focused on the intricacies of the human hand for his entire career, but once he had a few kids, he needed shoulder doctor money. And you can’t be a shoulder doctor unless you’ve been working ankles for at least 3 years.”
If the system sounds ridiculous in the medical field, it should sound equally ridiculous in the ministerial field. In seemingly every other profession, there is an understanding that a long-term commitment to the intricacies of that field will produce wisdom with age. Youth ministers who have dedicated their lives to students into their 50’s, 60’s and through retirement are some of the wisest people I’ve ever encountered. Sadly, there are too few. It is a strange thing to go to a student ministry conference and hear keynote addresses from a 24 year old. This isn’t to say that they ought to be looked down on because of their youth. They should be heard, understood, and challenged. But when 15 out of 16 workshops are done by hyperactive twenty- somethings with $70.00 haircuts, branded curriculum, and youth groups of 800+ students, the message is received loud and clear. If every youth pastor moves into another field at 24, the wisdom available with age and experience will only continue to vanish.
2. It fosters anti-professionalism.
While this could just as easily have been a conclusion drawn from the first point, there is a seismic shift in the difference between the two. If the hand doctor in the first illustration can’t draw from the wisdom of the ages, his work will be done without mentorship. More dangerous, though, is the system that tells the doctor that since he is only working on hands for a few years, he had also better use that time to study ankles and shoulders, since that’s the natural progression of his occupation. The complexities of adolescence, the shifting cultural trends of teenagers, and the ability to counsel in particular situations based on age and psychological development are crucial tools in the youth pastor toolkit. The assumption that you’re “moving on” in a few years also means that you had better keep up on how to church plant, church leadership structures, senior pastoral counseling, adult crisis care, training for dealing with dementia and Alzheimers, marriage counseling, bylaws, and the thousand other complexities of ministry to adults.
And so, in preparation for the future, what you have is a hand doctor who sacrifices the intricacies of the hand, and the depth of study which it requires, in order to learn the intricacies of ankle and shoulder. Eventually the scholarship reaches a tipping point, usually around age 24-26, and your hospital needs to hire another 18 year old in the hopes that you can get at least 5 years out of him.
3. It assumes a lack of scholarship in youth ministry, and it gets passed down to students.
So the hospital administration calls the supervisor of the hand care unit. “We’ve got a problem,” they say. “We’ve realized you’ve been hiring hand doctors who are bringing with them a colossal amount of med-school debt. We’ve talked about it, and med school is traditionally reserved for ankle and shoulder care. While we acknowledge that hand care is important, we think we can hire someone without med school training, because they spent 2 years studying hand care exclusively.” The supervisor protests, stating that the reason some of their hand doctors are excelling is because of the training that includes an understanding of the whole body, and how the hand connects to this thing called the wrist, and so on. The response tends to go as follows: “While the administration wishes this were an ideal world, the bottom line is that you can pay someone with 2 years of hand training a lot less than someone with full medical school training. Also, since people with 2 years of hand training won’t get hired by anyone else, they’ll take the job for considerably less than even their 2 years of training would merit. So we get care for our patient’s hands that is “good enough,” and we stay in the black.”
If you feel like what you’re going to end up with in this situation are a group of young specialists deep in debt without the prospect of retirement or long term investment into their current job, you’d be correct. I’m extremely happy to be part of a church that understands that seminary training is a worthwhile investment, even and especially for youth ministry. I’m compensated well, I’m given the opportunity for continuing education, study leave, and a budget for books and future training. What makes my church exceptional, in this case, is that this is a giant exception to the rule. I’ve lost a great many friends in ministry to the cycle of a lack of training, increased debt, and pay that doesn’t meet their needs as they age. To put it simply and starkly: in many instances, if you can keep them dumb, you can keep them cheap. And once they start to demand better training in light of the gaps in their education, or once they hit a financial wall, the easiest solution is to trade them out for a newer, cheaper model.
4. It assumes that the leap from youth to Associate or Senior pastoral ministry is a small one.
Some of my friends who have read this post thus far have probably protested on the grounds of their advanced biological or anatomical training. “Hands, ankles and shoulders are nothing alike!” I know. I don’t know with the intricacy which you, oh biological scholar, know. But that’s the benefit of field experience, in that I’m aware of the complex differences between youth and adult ministry. If you think there are vast differences between counseling a 7th grader and a sophomore, you’d be correct. If you think that teaching narrative to 6th graders and seniors requires some level of savvy, you’d be correct. Now consider the challenge of moving someone who has found out how to skillfully manage these intricacies. Consider what happens when they’re immediately questioned about when they’re going to start ministering to college students, broken down marriages, long-suffering cancer patients, and basically every challenge between age 19 and 105.
I have tremendous respect for my co-pastors and their ability to counsel, challenge, rebuke and encourage people in ways that I am simply not equipped to handle. They understand that I have a skill set that allows me to counsel children of divorce as it is happening, just as they have a skill set that reaches out to the parents undergoing the same trauma. In neither case is such counseling easy. But in both cases, God has provided us with a different vocabulary, a different maneuvering of empathy and confrontation, a different understanding of how our respective flocks process these events. The leap between the two is larger than the question of advancing to senior pastoral ministry gives credence. One of my friends in ministry recently told me that he’s been counseling for over 5 years with an older married couple dealing with the slow, painful effects of Alzheimers. He then reassured me that even though it was hard, he would rather deal with this situation than deal with a 16 year old who was dumped at prom. As I continue in this work, I’m less and less shocked by how many of my friends in senior pastoral ministry agree with this same sentiment.
5. It assumes that youth are primarily served by people between the ages of 18-25.
This is the assumption beneath the question that reads along the lines of “aren’t you getting a little old for this?” Youth ministry tends to be treated the same way as olympic gymnastics careers. There seems to be a certain point when people in their 30’s attempt it, and it just seems wrong. The difference between the youth pastor and the gymnast is that one is based on actual physical capability, and the other is based on an assumption that the young are drawn only to the young. Yes, my lock-in recovery time is a bit longer than it used to be. After a game of gaga-ball, I need to stretch. This is why younger volunteer leaders are a tremendous gift to a youth ministry. In the same way, when it comes to the depth of wisdom necessary for crisis counseling situations, I find that most of my students are immediately drawn to the oldest leader available. A youth group, like a church, is blessed by the experience of multiple generations. One of my greatest answers to the question of whether or not I’m too old for student ministry is when I say that I’m statistically on the younger side of my leadership team. On a quick calculation, the average age of a Focus youth leader is 32. Yes, I can seem old to a 6th grader. But deep down, a 17 year old can seem old to a 6th grader. The idea that youth are best ministered to by an energetic 21 year old is simply an unchallenged assumption, and an assumption which the slightest bit of insight can easily break. It can be perpetuated by the larger problematic system, but has no basis in reality.
6. It simply doesn’t make sense.
Have you ever asked an elementary school teacher when they plan to move up to middle school? Have you ever asked a high school teacher when they want to start teaching adult education? Does your day care worker seem to be ready to move up to high school gym teaching? In each of these cases, there is an underlying assumption that the gifts and callings of each of these professionals is tailored to working with a particular age group. In my case, and likely in the case of your youth pastor, their gifts are particularly tailored to middle and high schoolers. When the assumption hits that I would love to work in VBS because I love kids, I do everything I can not to laugh. I understand fully that there are some in the church who do not have the gifts, nor the desire, to work with middle and high school students. If this is the case at your current church, understand (1) that this is okay provided that you still love your students as brothers and sisters in Christ and (2) you don’t assume that youth leaders are always the weird ones.
7. It terrifies students.
Lastly, and perhaps most importantly, is the effect which these questions have on the students under the care of their current youth pastor. If your doctor is working on your hand while only reading books about ankles, it should cause some level of anxiety. If every 5 years you get a new 18 year old doctor, you begin to distrust the motives of any doctor over 22. Combine this with an age group that is beset by abandonment issues, distrust of adults and authority, and constant fear of anything else changing, and you get a very stressful cocktail. Being asked the question about moving on to senior pastoral ministry can be mildly irritating, but being asked the question by a parent of a student in the presence of that student can be emotionally petrifying to their kid. It leads to increased suspicion, fear of abandonment, and a failure to open up to counseling with the expectation that as soon as they finally find someone to confide in, they’re going to leave. Yes, there are appropriate expectations that people may change their career location, or try something new. But the idea that you simply have to change in a limited number of years based on a broken system of expectations is not only mildly irritating, or insulting, but can hinder the good work of youth pastors, as well as intensifying the already present fears of their students.
I'm not asking you to stop asking your youth pastor about their plans for the future, but to be mindful of the way in which you ask it. Like any other profession, sometimes things change, gifts shift, and the calling to senior pastoral ministry becomes a reality. If you know of a youth pastor who has shifted to senior pastoral ministry, I'm not telling you that they sold out, that the system broke them down, or that their gifts aren't rightly suited. However, if you know of someone who wants to spend a lifetime devoted to youth ministry and seems to be wearied by the idea that such a vocational road isn't feasible, reasonable, right, or biblical, provide them with a word of encouragement in their calling. Ask questions out of love, not out of expectation. In this way, you act with the kindness and provocation of Christ, who never breaks a bruised reed.
- John